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Talk:Ivern/@comment-4636093-20161003085139
This guy..... The more I play him, the more I discover weird and wonderful stuff about him.... (WALL OF TEXT AHOY!) ---- The most drastic thing I've found is that his best runepage is "Really fuckin' weird lookin'". It finally clicked with me that the runes which AP junglers use (except Fiddlesticks who uses laning-mage runes), Diana, Elise, Nidalee, Kayle, Ekko, etc... armor yellows, attack speed reds, AD Quints, and AP Blues... Other than the AP they are all completely redundant on Ivern. He doesn't need Armor, AS or AD because he's not actually attacking them nor being attacked. Right now the best looking build involves Armor Reds (I honestly can't find a better rune here, Magic Pen may be really good also), Health Regeneration Yellows, 6 CDR/level and 3 AP (or AP/level) Blues, and 2 Health Regeneration and an AP (or AP/level) Quint. All that health regeneration gives him an additional 10H/5 (2 health per second), healing him really quickly up as he spends his health to clear the camps. I did the math and there are certain really viable jungle paths which makes this health regeneration keep him healthier than flat health runes. And the CDR gives 10% at level 18. CDR is his best stat but with most builds I could only fit 30% on so this helps hit that cap. Jungle path is.... anywhere you want. The guy can go everywhere and anywhere he pleases. But the best one I found was: Grove Krugs - Grove Razorbeaks - Grove Wolves - Grove Gromp - Grove Blue - Smite Blue - Clear Razorbeaks - Grove Red - Smite Red - Clear Krugs - Clear Wolves - Clear Gromp. This is the fastest and healthiest full clear I've managed to find. All the health regeneration gives you an extremely healthy clear which finishes on full health and mana as long as you space your grove placings out. You can even continue jungling for basically forever although it is better to go back and upgrade your Talisman and buy items. ---- 0/18/12 masteries taking ether thunderlords or windspeaker's blessing (I prefer windspeaker's although extra damage can't hurt), make sure you get the additional 5% CDR cap, the movement speed out of combat (clearing camps doesn't put you in combat unless you use Smite), and all of the health regeneration you can get in the resolve tree (if only because the other's aren't as good). Best build I've found is full AP. His ratios are just too good, make sure you hit that 40/45% CDR cap but other than that go wild with the AP. Start with and (you can upgrade this to if you want but I don't think it's necessary), upgrade to any of the smites, I like best for more defense against invades and damage during ganks, but the other's are good for more CC with , or more wards with , but DON'T actually buy an enchantment, the is the best but still really underwhelming, I actually like to sell the jungle item later on and buy something else instead. Next item is for CDR, which you finish fast to start stacking it sooner, then as a high end AP item which gives all important 20% CDR which once you level up your runes will give you the cap, you should already be just under the regular 40% cap now. for more AP turns you into a really highly damaging force with constant explodey shield spamming. Then and to increase your slowing and damaging power (can also get these before Deathcap), your Bush empowered auto attacks from W apply spell effects so you're constantly slowing and burning people you attack. If you don't have CDR runes then swap out Liandry's for a or instead. A note about Abyssal Scepter is that it is a REALLY really good item on him anyway, it just doesn't synergise enough with a full AP build which I like to be considered in the default items to buy. However it's definitely a core on any AP Bruiser build or AP support build which he chooses to build. Build it instead of Deathcap on an AP bruiser build. And on the AP Support build then , , (I've never liked this item so can't exactly recommend it) and or even if you're going even further into a support style and want more map vision. ---- Starting skills can be anything.... and I mean anything. Although it's good to have all 3 skills by level 3. I like to start with W -> Q -> E because W scouts for invades, although taking Q first is good if you're invading yourself or if an ally has gotten caught. Q helps with map mobility letting you jump to jungle camps early on or snaring enemies. After that level E > Q > W and taking R whenever available. E gives everything about Ivern to Ivern, shields allies, damages enemies, CCs enemies, does a lot of all 3 of those too, then Q for more root duration and damage. W is mostly for utility but getting another few levels in it early is alright since it gives more DPS against dragons. ---- Speaking of which, Ivern can solo objectives breathtakingly easy. As soonas he hits level 6 and gets Daisy (which he does very quickly considering he's so fast at jungling) he can have her tank the dragon while he places a bush in one corner and constantly places shields on Daisy to keep her healthy and to do hug damage to Dragon. You can even do this to Baron later on, soloing it as soon as it spawns even if you have CDR and AP (blue buff gives you the rest of the CDR if you're not level 18 yet and also a boost to AP, you can even take it for yourself AND also dublicate a copy for your mid or other laner which is another strength Ivern has). ---- Actual playstyle follows a whimsical "do anything" pattern. You can gank since you have a lot of CC, or you can farm your own jungle since it's incredibly quick, or you can go farm the enemy's jungle if you know where they are for the same reason, use W to scout for them and use Q to dash around the battlefield. If you do go ganking then it's best to go to a lane where your allies have a lot of damage, Ivern does get damage eventually but early on he needs assistance. If there's one thing which can be sure is that ganking Post-6 is deadly, Daisy brings so much CC and extra damage that it's crazy and she's almost always up since the cooldown is really low. Placing a shield on her or your laner ally then Qing the enemy allowing the shielded thing to dash to them causes the enemy to be rooted, slowed then knocked up, then probably slowed again since the cooldown is so short.... It's like a Nautilus ganking. That's a 70% slow for 3 seconds... which doesn't decay. ---- Although there is one thing which needs fixing and that's Daisy randomly dropping aggro from targets she's supposed to be hitting until you re-tell her to do so... She does this very often when the enemy uses a dash, even if the dash is really short ranged like a Nidalee hop. Daisy just loses track and stops moving. Also Daisy's path finding is really poor and if you tell her to walk around a wall (for example stand next to botside Krugs and tell her to walk to the red bush), or walk around a single minion, she may start spinning in circles. This is the only thing holding Ivern back. I've heard from some people that he's underpowered and weak, I personally think that he may become a balance nightmare for Riot when people know how to play the guy and he suddenly becomes OP. However I would still like these Daisy bugs fixed before actually seeing if any direct buffs or nerfs are needed.